RunUO Community

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Big Brother is watching…

Slayer706

Sorceror
Define Cheat. Im almoust sure that for EA EasyUO/Razor/UOCompanion are cheat programs as same as speedhacks.
I define cheating as doing something against the rules. If you use Razor, EasyUO, and/or UOCompanion on a server that doesn't allow it, you are cheating. It isn't a hard concept. If you use one of those programs on EA servers or on a private server that doesn't allow them, you suck at the internet.
Really, I am not sure why you asked me to define cheat. Both you and I know those aren't allowed on EA servers, so how does that help defend cheating? I don't understand what that comment was supposed to do.

What makes me so sure it won't stop private servers? Because you have to agree to install it. Not only that, but they will have PunkBuster free servers. It probably won't even run unless the EA client is open. There is probably going to be a way to turn it on and off. I made a few extremely long posts a while back in this thread that went into more detail, I refer you to them.
 

virux

Wanderer
I don't think PB can affect the private UO server commnunity much,mostly because it can easily be removed for private servers(3-4 code patches maybe).
A as most serious(?) anti-gamehacking systems it works like this : 1)the game loads the security system 2)the game checks if its working 3)the security system provides authorization codes(generally dynamic or by request) to the server. All that needs to be done is to remove the first 2 feats from the client and not implement server-side auth in RunUO.
However it might affect the devs ability to reverse the code(like see what new packets/feats were added in the new client version) as these systems generally try blocking debuggers/loggers/sniffers/api spys/etc.

In my opinion such systems are not even needed for games like UO,because these games have a solid design and the client doesnt play an important role(well, of course there are macro programs,utils,plugins to make things faster,but considering those as cheats is subjective,since they arent true exploits). Games like CounterStrike,Gunbound,MapleStory,etc which have p2p design need those systems(for example gb sends the amount of gold won to the server) to prevent cheating(probably reduces the cheaters by 70%).

Regarding the screenshot feat, i do think that's an invasion of privacy and i once accidentally discovered an SS of a user while typing his password when connecting to some CS server, so even if they actually SS only the game,it still invades privacy.I fully reversed one of these security systems(not PB,nprotect gameguard),and the info sent to the server includes,username,pc name,most of hardware config,list of processes,modules,ingame username,time,hacks detected,certain apps which were installed ,among other things.

Another problem are system drivers , almost all serious anti-cheat system use system drivers to prevent hacking(anti-hook/etc),however those drivers can also easily crash the users pc(they operate under ring0 , in kernel memspace).The behavior is basically the same as what kernel-rootkits do.(userland as well).Also a crash in kernel-mode means system-crash/restart. These things are quite common for protections like nProtect GameGuard, i have not looked into PB itself,but i'm assuming its rather similar.(at least from what i've read/heard).

Razor/EasyUO probably wont be supported because if someone releases a bypass/patched pb , a new pb update will just get issued that will detect those tools(or udpate encryption so old ripped one doesnt work). This
will probably force working mods of these utils underground because publishing them will only result in a pb update/pb crypt algo update(if more serious bypass is made).

So to conclude i would say that such a system is not suitable for games like UO,and only creates problems for the users(crashes,false positives,etc) ,also it doesnt stop determined hackers.
If the RunUO/Razor devs need to reverse the client's code,they might have to rip the client/server auth scheme and use that instead of PB,but i don't think that will be a major problem for them if they'll need to do it ;)
 

Slayer706

Sorceror
If the RunUO/Razor devs need to reverse the client's code,they might have to rip the client/server auth scheme and use that instead of PB,but i don't think that will be a major problem for them if they'll need to do it.
I would have no problem with Razor modding their program to be able to play free servers if PB had any effect, but I hope they don't try to bypass PB just to get it to work on OSI. I have always thought of Razor as a macro utility to be used on servers that allow it, not a cheat device. If Razor modded their code to bypass PB just for the sake of letting people use it on OSI, it would become a cheat device and I would no longer use it.
Oh, and reverse engineering the client is illegal, so that might be just a little problem.
Cheaters in online games suck. End of story.
 

dkor

Wanderer
For the like the 1000th time it will not install PB w/o your permission. And pb cant do anything to a runuo/sphere/pol and any other emulation server, the only way it can be used is by an osi GM wishing to see if you are cheating once you have been paged on, otherwise it sits idle doing nothing.
 

Slayer706

Sorceror
For the like the 1000th time it will not install PB w/o your permission. And pb cant do anything to a runuo/sphere/pol and any other emulation server, the only way it can be used is by an osi GM wishing to see if you are cheating once you have been paged on, otherwise it sits idle doing nothing.
False. It does not sit idle until a GM decides to check if you are cheating, otherwise it would be next to useless. It runs while you are playing UO and checks your system processes for programs that are illegal or that mess with UO's packets. It will also check your game files for modifications.
 

dkor

Wanderer
also some people where complaining about it scanning your hd well its not gonna scan anything more than where you have uo installed to b/c that is the most they could do without crossing the line. and if they are scanning your ram for stuff that might pertain to anything that might mess with uo then they can ban you for using a ram manager cus it messes with uo..... and it cant run without you allowing it either if you know what you are doing hehe
 

Perad

Wanderer
It doesn't affect us, runuo doesn't use punkbuster, we can simply disable it and play as normal. Punkbuster needs to communicate with a server to function. It won't disable the client, if it finds something wrong it will send a message to the server. The server will then disconnect you and action will be taken.

runuo doesn't use punkbuster, if you use a cheat program it will try to communicate with runuo and fail. Even if it does send a message to OSI what are they going to do? Its not like you have an account they can disable.

If you disable it, it won't affect the client and won't affect runuo.

How do i know this, with call of duty 2 and battlefield 2 you have the option to switch it off. You can then use cheat programs and play away to your hearts content on non-punkbuster servers.

While UO is a bit more complicated than that i see no reason why you cannot disable it.

I would imagine that if this was implimented on OSI it would run a punkbuster check when you log in to check that it is there and enabled. Then you will be able to log in. If you disable it or even delete the pb folder it won't make a difference to runuo.
 

Asmir3

Sorceror
Error With Krrios Client

I get Commong Language Problem with my krrios client when i try to start and i have no clue how to fix someone plz help!
 

Maynza

Formerly DontdroptheSOAD
Ye Olde Newse Zippy-e

October 20, 2005

There is probably an article that says what blizzard did about it, I don't remember I saw this a looong time ago.
 

Jasper750

Wanderer
PunkBuster is currently on hold.

PunkBuster On Hold

After a lot of research and development, we’ve come to the conclusion that for now, it would be better for us to focus on internal fixes and security improvements instead of trying to install PunkBuster. The integration of PunkBuster into the Ultima Online client is being indefinitely postponed, until we can do justice to the marriage of the two products.

We enjoyed working with the team from Even Balance, and hope to do so in the future. We do have the same goals, after all: Ensuring fair play is one of our highest priorities.

Please know that we are working to make systems within the Kingdom Reborn client extremely tough on cheaters. We’ve made cheat prevention, and other in-game measures, a top (and ongoing) priority for our coding team.

Here is the link to the news: http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/...oard=uouhall&Number=6929552&page=0&view=&sb=5
 

ncc386

Wanderer
Well, anytime you install something that has root access (more or less) on your computer, you open new security holes that previously did not exist. An exploit in the PunkBuster services could allow total system compromise.

Besides, I used to use PunkBuster and it isn't fool-proof. It's almost pointless to even use it now as there are too many ways around it. I watch people cheat all day long in various PB "protected" games such as FEAR.

The point is, there are no sure-fire ways to prevent cheaters. Someone is always going to eventually find new exploits and take advantage of them. In the end, all you can really do is try to identify cheaters and ban them manually. Installing a root-kit (which is basically what PunkBuster is) that sniffs network traffic and memory addresses for "known" exploits while playing is probably not the best answer due to potential unknown security holes introduced by 3rd party software.

If the coding was certifiably secure, there were no potential "spyware" features, and the anti-cheating effectiveness were dramatically increased, PunkBuster might not be such a bad choice for some people. But then, that would require significantly more effort on EvenBalance's side and might result in a commercial version of the product.
 
Iomega0318;579706 said:
I'm really starting to get fed up with OSI...

Hey ninja, dont blame OSI, one, they dont even exist, and two, EA is in control of all this crap.

I personally dont see why everyone got all worried, like many security programs nowdays (for games at least), theyre coded by a bunch of half-asses who dont know the first thing about how easy their shit is to break.

The only problem I would've gotten po'd about would be if this stopped me from using RunUO, then I'd get allllll angwy at EA.
 
Top