Smoking Banned in State of Illinois

[Nar Matteru]

I meant establishments in general, not stores. I've never seen it in a grocery store either.. or wal mart/kmart etc.

 

[TheOutkastDev]

you force harm upon yourself if you choose to go into a smoking establishment...

So a smoker's right to smoke trumps my right to do what I want to do? If I like the food that a restaurant serves, but if it allows smoking, I am expected to not go there because the smoker's rights are more important than mine right?

My rights are not as important as a smoker's rights. Gotcha.

I mean seriously, do we need a reminder of what second hand smoke does to people?

 

[Radwen]

I am for the legalization of killing people that do things I consider stupid.

At last someone says something thats worth reading.

 

[Puron1794]

At last someone says something thats worth reading.

Srsly. TMS should run for Dictator er..I mean President. It's hard to tell the difference these days.

 

[Courageous]

this doesn't change the fact that smoking around other smokers who choose to be in a smoking establishment should not be illegal

Well, fine. You just seem to have epistemological inconsistencies in your beliefs.

But let's look at the situation with bars and clubs more carefully. Isn't it true that most people going to bars and clubs don't actually smoke? Isn't it true that these nonsmokers are annoyed, and risk their health with the smoke? Isn't it true that knowing this, they nevertheless go nowhere else, possibly because there is often not particularly anywhere else to go to?

You're witnessing a situation in which the "invisible hand" has malfunctioned. The market has failed to respond to a mass preference, for a variety of reasons.

It happens. The invisible hand is imperfect.

How far should We The People go in legislating things like this? That's a good question.

C//

 

[Johabius]

Kansas is considering implementing a similar ban. Welcome to 1984. The government should have no right to dictate what someone can do with their private businesses. I know some will make the comparison between allowing smoking, and the right to eject black people. There is a difference. Smoking is a choice, being black (or mexican, or any other minority) is not a choice. Whoever tries to use that argument is using a flawed argument.

Here's a quote from a local bar owner.

"Looking at the bar right now, there's nine people smoking out of 11," Rome said. "It would put a dent in us, as well as the other bars in town."

He also thinks that it's inevitable that the smoking ban will happen, but he's also not going to go down without a fight.

 

[Nar Matteru]

So a smoker's right to smoke trumps my right to do what I want to do? If I like the food that a restaurant serves, but if it allows smoking, I am expected to not go there because the smoker's rights are more important than mine right?

My rights are not as important as a smoker's rights. Gotcha.

I mean seriously, do we need a reminder of what second hand smoke does to people?

Buying something, food or otherwise isn't something entitled to you. It's a privilege. The store owner is allowing you to enter his premises and purchase his merchandise. If he wants to support smokers or nonsmokers its should be his choice.

 

[WarAngel]

The real problem here is that each side is making an entirely different argument in rebuttal to the other. Most of the anti-smoking side looks first at health. Store owners have no right to supersede government health regulations. You can't have asbestos in your building and, if you view this issue as a health concern, there's no reason to give a store owner the option to allow unhealthy conditions like smoking.

 

[Johabius]

The real problem here is that each side is making an entirely different argument in rebuttal to the other. Most of the anti-smoking side looks first at health. Store owners have no right to supersede government health regulations. You can't have asbestos in your building and, if you view this issue as a health concern, there's no reason to give a store owner the option to allow unhealthy conditions like smoking.

It's not a health issue, it's a "government stepping in where they have no business stepping in" issue. Asbestos is illegal, smoking is not.

 

[Kheldar]

theres no asbestos where i work? really i wonder what all the stuff coming out of the brake drums on cars are that have been in a barn for the last 30 yrs or so. and yes i know your supposed to have a machine for it but we dont hrm maybe they should fix that before they tell me i cant smoke at work. im going to die from the other stuff in the air before i die from my smokes but o well.

 

[bzk90]

So a smoker's right to smoke trumps my right to do what I want to do? If I like the food that a restaurant serves, but if it allows smoking, I am expected to not go there because the smoker's rights are more important than mine right?

My rights are not as important as a smoker's rights. Gotcha.

I mean seriously, do we need a reminder of what second hand smoke does to people?

So a non smoker's right to not have smoke in their face trumps my right to do what I want to do. If I like the food that a restaurant serves and I want to smoke will enjoying it, but it doesn't allow smoking, I am expected to not go there because the non smoker's rights are more important than mine?

My rights are not as important as a nonsmokers rights. Gotcha


anyways..get over the superiority complex...whatever happened to equality?

smokers seem to be as hated for their smoking as jews were/are for their money loaning

 

[bzk90]

Well, fine. You just seem to have epistemological inconsistencies in your beliefs.

But let's look at the situation with bars and clubs more carefully. Isn't it true that most people going to bars and clubs don't actually smoke? Isn't it true that these nonsmokers are annoyed, and risk their health with the smoke? Isn't it true that knowing this, they nevertheless go nowhere else, possibly because there is often not particularly anywhere else to go to?

You're witnessing a situation in which the "invisible hand" has malfunctioned. The market has failed to respond to a mass preference, for a variety of reasons.

It happens. The invisible hand is imperfect.

How far should We The People go in legislating things like this? That's a good question.

C//

I can't say whether these statements are true since I don't go clubbing. However, the local bar has a majority of smokers and most major cities have dozens of clubs.

Places are different...which is why business owners who know what their clients want should be allowed to make the decisions...why do you think the business owners are fighting against these laws?

 

[WarAngel]

It's not a health issue, it's a "government stepping in where they have no business stepping in" issue. Asbestos is illegal, smoking is not.

You must've missed the first two sentences of my post.

 

[TheOutkastDev]

My rights are not as important as a nonsmokers rights. Gotcha

Exercising my right doesn't subject others to the inhalation of nicotine and various carcinogens.

And please stereotype jews some more.

 

[WarAngel]

theres no asbestos where i work? really i wonder what all the stuff coming out of the brake drums on cars are that have been in a barn for the last 30 yrs or so. and yes i know your supposed to have a machine for it but we dont hrm maybe they should fix that before they tell me i cant smoke at work. im going to die from the other stuff in the air before i die from my smokes but o well.

Completely irrelevant to what my argument was. Call OSHA and report your employer though.

 

[bzk90]

Exercising my right doesn't subject others to the inhalation of nicotine and various carcinogens.

And please stereotype jews some more.

Exercising my right doesn't force you to be in the same business that I am in

it wasn't a stereotype...it is a legitimate point...jews have been criticized for their money lending, for a very long time too.

you need to adapt to society...society can't always adapt to you

 

[WarAngel]

Exercising my right doesn't force you to be in the same business that I am in

You don't have a right to smoke.

it wasn't a stereotype...it is a legitimate point...jews have been criticized for their money lending, for a very long time too.

It is a stereotype. It's been a stereotype about Jews for a very long time, not a criticism.

you need to adapt to society...society can't always adapt to you

Yeah. Fucking stop smoking. Society is moving on from that crap.

 

[Nar Matteru]

You don't have a right to smoke.

Well technically there's no constitutional right to eat or breathe or walk either. Thats what the 9th amendment is for. Whether or not it applies to smoking, I don't know. I would assume it would at least cover it in one's own home though.

It is a stereotype. It's been a stereotype about Jews for a very long time, not a criticism.

I've never understood that, never met a Jewish person, so I've never understood the jokes/stereotypes about them. So explanation anyone?

 

[Johabius]

You must've missed the first two sentences of my post.

No, I didn't miss them. I was more talking to the people that are arguing from a health issue standpoint. I have no illusions that smoking is bad for you, and that second hand smoke can be bad for you. My particular argument would stay the same whether I was a smoker or not.

 

[WarAngel]

So you're stating that, even if cigarettes are a public health issue, it shouldn't actually be treated like a public health issue?