Ultima Online Kingdom Reborn support.

[kmwill23]

It wasnt meant to be tactful at all, I think its pretty bad when every thread is being highjacked with crap like that. It like I tell my kids theirs a time and place for everything. Its not that I dont think some comments are funny cause some are, but its rude to just go around to every thread to post when all you say is the same thing and nothing about the topic.

I agree totally with the part you refer to =) I was about to drop a +karma bomb on you, until you attacked TMSTKSBK.

~

You can look at the UOKR situation from a few different angles. First, EA is changing their client, adding many new (moderm MMO ripped) features, and possibly changing the file structures in ways which would require a bit more intrusion to reverse-engineer. That could possibly be used as a very valid legal threat.

Another situation is more obvious. If the RunUO community came here and started open discussions on UOKR that may be under the non-disclosure, RunUO.com could feasibly be held accountable. It could be used as a platform to seriously disrupt the emulation community, specifically those in charge.

Third, representatives from EA could have already communicated with Ryan in an official form, and his silence on the specifics could be a result of legal counsel. Ryan has a lot to risk, since he is also a professional in the field. I don't think this situation is very likely =)

Hhhmmm, I'll add a fourth. The change in attitude regarding emulation at EA could have been enough to spook the RunUO team. Again, the RunUO team has a lot to risk, and a threat of looming legal action is more than enough for me personally to reflect a bit.

Of course there are other possible reasons, I am just speculating =)

 

[Fixxxer]

I agree totally with the part you refer to =) I was about to drop a +karma bomb on you, until you attacked TMSTKSBK.

I wouldnt say that I attacked, but more defended myself, but I guess thats just my point of view. I dont really care about karma and rep, to me people look too much into rep and karma thinking that someone is worth a shit cause they have alot. Most the people that have helped me with my server and scripts have been the ones with the least amount and the ones with the most seem to have a bit of attitude towards new guys and not much help in the community.

I like the graphics and to me it looks just like Diablo's which i used to play as well as UO. I wouldnt play a game just because the graphics are good if the game is lame doesnt really matter what the graphics are like. I am sure within this community there will be someone trying to support it and it would be interesting to see how it all works out for them.

Its hard to say why for sure but like they said they have all discussed it and came to the decision together, if it wasnt for them Id still be on EA and hating it, looking forward to the new graphics only to be let down with more nerfs and limitations.

 

[HellRazor]

Lies and more lies from RunUO Dev. Team, and the worst thing isn't that, else the continuous support from their community, whatever it is the Dev. decission.

I suppose that I will be criticized by the community for my words, but I won't stay in silence, when RunUO 2.0 don't have Full ML support yet and some freeshards of the RunUO Team (like Demise) have it since two years ago. This can't be let, and probably they are planning already future changes on their shards or a new shard with Full KR support

It's right that RunUO is Open Source and totally free, but stop lying RunUO Dev. Team, please. If you don't want that people can start new freeshards with last updates from OSI for removing your rivals, you only have to say it.

Congrats, you've earned the Biggest Ingrate of the Week award.

 

[TMSTKSBK]

Lies and more lies from RunUO Dev. Team, and the worst thing isn't that, else the continuous support from their community, whatever it is the Dev. decission.

I suppose that I will be criticized by the community for my words, but I won't stay in silence, when RunUO 2.0 don't have Full ML support yet and some freeshards of the RunUO Team (like Demise) have it since two years ago. ...

Hey! CondeSev! Guess what? They gave you the entire code of RunUO. With just a little bit of work, some application of thought, and a little carpal tunnel later, you can script YOUR VERY OWN IMPLEMENTATION OF ML!

It's like someone giving you a banana when you're hungry, and you telling them you don't want it.

Why do you not want it?

Well, you wanted them to peel it for you.

PEEL YOUR OWN BANANA. RunUO not only offers a very simple way of generally customizing the server -- the entire server is open for modification! Now get out there and modify it.

UOGamers shards are semi-independent of the development cycle of RunUO. IIRC, the cores they run on aren't *strictly* the RunUO we know. Therefore, it is not legitimate to say that they are somehow "withholding" ML from the general community. If you devoted your time to it, you could have ML support, too . It's that simple.
Now, summarily:
Die in a fire. Thank you.

Oh. Right. ML is a much smaller modification in the overall scheme of things than KR would be. And, as they have said multiple times: if you want to do it. Go for it. MSDN Home Page is all you need to know. And weeks to months of research on OSI.

@Fixxer: You have directly or indirectly insulted me three times. You, also, shall die in a fire.

 

[Courageous]

Again, the RunUO team has a lot to risk, and a threat of looming legal action is more than enough for me personally to reflect a bit.

Well. If such were the case, this is a GPL'd community at this point. A threat of litigation does not impact just Ryan and team. If EA were attempting to claim that RunUO were a derivative work of UO, they'd be claiming that my LOS system were a derivative work of UO also, by implication. I take great exception to that!

C//

 

[Fixxxer]

Show some respect to fellow members.

Respect is earned not giving away, just because someone is at the same webpage as me doesnt mean I have to give them respect for being there. I have been with this community for over a year now which isnt long to some of you but is long enough to see how it works as a whole. There are some very good people in the community as well as some that arent all that great, its just like with everything in life you have your good with your bad. But you really cant expect people to just put their head down cause there are more of them.

Well. If such were the case, this is a GPL'd community at this point. A threat of litigation does not impact just Ryan and team. If EA were attempting to claim that RunUO were a derivative work of UO, they'd be claiming that my LOS system were a derivative work of UO also, by implication. I take great exception to that!

I understand where you are coming from and if something was going on with runuo it would effect all of us cause then not only going after ryan but if legal action did take place none of us could run our servers without possible legal issues.
I really dont know what Ryan would do in this kind of situation because posting it on the forums and telling everyone well there are alot that like to talk and blow things out of context, then most likely a few briliant members on here would email EA and tell them what they think of it and it could get alot worse for all of us.
I dont think anything will happen if we just keep working on the 2.0 and stay away from KR, once EA has had their glory and things are back to normal for them with losing members then we can see what could happen. If other game companies is shuting down emulators from their game, it could be enough for EA to follow suit.

 

[shrundowr]

Lies and more lies from RunUO Dev. Team, and the worst thing isn't that, else the continuous support from their community, whatever it is the Dev. decission.

I suppose that I will be criticized by the community for my words, but I won't stay in silence, when RunUO 2.0 don't have Full ML support yet and some freeshards of the RunUO Team (like Demise) have it since two years ago. This can't be let, and probably they are planning already future changes on their shards or a new shard with Full KR support

It's right that RunUO is Open Source and totally free, but stop lying RunUO Dev. Team, please. If you don't want that people can start new freeshards with last updates from OSI for removing your rivals, you only have to say it.

Yes because UOGamers using possibly unstable code, in the extremely capable hands of krrios before releasing it to the not-as-capable general public, which would go "OMG MY SHARD CRASHEDED AND MY SYSTEMS BROKDED, ALL YOUR FAULT FIX IT" faster than a cat shits in a freshly cleaned litter box is just a grand conspiracy

 

[kmwill23]

Respect is earned not giving away

I respect all until they give me cause not to, and it takes a lot to lose my respect =) Of which you are not in danger of losing. You are well spoken, defend yourself admirably, and still manage too keep a calm head!

~

I know I personally would have serious reservations about running a private server if EA takes any action. In fact, I'd most likely disappear from the UO world. Then I'd move into other interesting development work!

This is all hypothetical. I do agree with Fixxxer; I feel that if we remain low-key now and let UOKR come and go, EA will tone down again. I even bet we could then continue emulating UOKR without interference.

 

[PappaSmurf]

Lies and more lies from RunUO Dev. Team, and the worst thing isn't that, else the continuous support from their community, whatever it is the Dev. decission.

I suppose that I will be criticized by the community for my words, but I won't stay in silence, when RunUO 2.0 don't have Full ML support yet and some freeshards of the RunUO Team (like Demise) have it since two years ago. This can't be let, and probably they are planning already future changes on their shards or a new shard with Full KR support

It's right that RunUO is Open Source and totally free, but stop lying RunUO Dev. Team, please. If you don't want that people can start new freeshards with last updates from OSI for removing your rivals, you only have to say it.

I went on the UOGamer's shards they do not have Full ML Support, so that point is moot. I do doubt that full ML support will ever be implimented for a simple reason. Around the time ML came out there was a change to EA's TOS that went further to make emulation more, shall we say unstable in it's legality. By updating RunUO to full 100% OSI accurate ML Support they could fall into the same pit as if they did a KR client. The Legal standpoint here is kinda iffy, granted the client pre-dates the rules and legal issues but some of it's content does not so it's hard to tell what can and can't be used agianst them.

 

[PappaSmurf]

This is all hypothetical. I do agree with Fixxxer; I feel that if we remain low-key now and let UOKR come and go, EA will tone down again. I even bet we could then continue emulating UOKR without interference.

RunUO cannot become Low Key, that is an issue in and of itself. I know of at least one RunUO ran server that supposedly had some of EA's Dev members playing there. What I can say for certian is they are aware of the Emulation community and do not forget about it. I've had discussions with Former members of EA's development team on the subject in years gone by, they allow them because they are never upto date with Official servers and they have been a source of ideas in the past, almost like a running poll of what's hot and not for players. But with changes in staff and changes in profit margins things can and do change that's the nature of bussiness, just don't assume the Emulation community can or will be overlooked because it won't.

 

[Courageous]

The Legal standpoint here is kinda iffy, granted the client pre-dates the rules and legal issues but some of it's content does not so ...

RunUO (the team, and the software both) does not distribute any EA content what-so-ever. About all the software "distributes" is integers in a form which I believe aren't covered by any form of intellectual property law at all: copyright, patent, trademark, or trade secret.

This space is undiscovered country. It would be interesting to read what legal arguments (if indeed they make any... could just be threats) that Blizzard has been using against the WoW emulator community.

C//

 

[HellRazor]

The Legal standpoint here is kinda iffy, granted the client pre-dates the rules and legal issues but some of it's content does not so ...

RunUO (the team, and the software both) does not distribute any EA content what-so-ever. About all the software "distributes" is integers in a form which I believe aren't covered by any form of intellectual property law at all: copyright, patent, trademark, or trade secret.

This space is undiscovered country. It would be interesting to read what legal arguments (if indeed they make any... could just be threats) that Blizzard has been using against the WoW emulator community.

C//

Since there are no court cases out there, they are probably using scare tactics (such as "cease and desist" letters) to get emulators to voluntarily shut down, and to get web space providers to shut them down. Some of them might have been distributing the WoW client also which would give them plenty of legal footing on that front.

 

[PappaSmurf]

The Legal standpoint here is kinda iffy, granted the client pre-dates the rules and legal issues but some of it's content does not so ...

RunUO (the team, and the software both) does not distribute any EA content what-so-ever. About all the software "distributes" is integers in a form which I believe aren't covered by any form of intellectual property law at all: copyright, patent, trademark, or trade secret.

This space is undiscovered country. It would be interesting to read what legal arguments (if indeed they make any... could just be threats) that Blizzard has been using against the WoW emulator community.

C//

With the rewrite of thier TOS it opens some doors based on interpretation

(d) Official Service. Ultima Online has been designed by Electronic Arts for play only on the Service. The Software is licensed to you for play on the Service only. Electronic Arts does not grant you a license to use the Software for any other purpose. You agree to play Ultima Online only on the Service and not through any other means. You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Ultima Online may be played by others - for example, through server emulators. You may not reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Software, including any proprietary communications protocol used by the Software. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Ultima Online unless specifically authorized in writing by Electronic Arts.

Now That states the Software ie the client making that TOS binding as soon as you install it on your PC with our without a subscription it also forbids the uses of Emulation and all non-approved 3rd party programs without their permission. Now the since laws can't apply to a crime committed before the softwares agreement protected it EA could attempt to use this agianst the Emu community based on patched in new content saying that content is protected under that provision. That would explain the lack of further development in RunUO 2.0 as it's still lacking much of the ML features.

 

[shrundowr]

With the rewrite of thier TOS it opens some doors based on interpretation




Now That states the Software ie the client making that TOS binding as soon as you install it on your PC with our without a subscription it also forbids the uses of Emulation and all non-approved 3rd party programs without their permission. Now the since laws can't apply to a crime committed before the softwares agreement protected it EA could attempt to use this agianst the Emu community based on patched in new content saying that content is protected under that provision. That would explain the lack of further development in RunUO 2.0 as it's still lacking much of the ML features.

Uhhhhhh.... what lack of development??