Mondain's Legacy

[jeremymcc]

hmm...sounds interesting. got a couple questions though.

will it....
have a login server and shard server setup?
have support for previous expansions? ie: current expansion system in case someone doesn't want ML.
support KR client?
support SA on the classic client?
be exclusively developed by one developer or will others be able to join or have already joined?
still be coded in C#?

i guess i'm just curious as to the scope of this project. thank you.

 

[Acronis]

I don't plan to add multi server support the same way OSI does, but there will be the ability to have MySQL on a separate server. So idealy you'd get the data center to patch a 2nd nic to the other server via crossover cable at 1gbps and increase the MTU as well as enable jumbo frames.

I will probably keep the login server like it is now but there's a few changes already that made it easy to add server entries to redirect to other servers. I have TC1 and production, so when users choose TC1 they're actually logging to a completely different machine.

I have no plans to support KR since EA will be dropping it, or so I heard, so no point in wasting time trying to reverse engineer it if it's fate is not 100% known. I plan to do strictly ML, and use the existing codebase but with tons of changes. I will probably get rid of all hash tables and replace with dictionaries, get rid of all arraylists and replace with lists and tons more optimizations.

My #2 plan though is to code a server from scratch, at that point I'd just release it as my own. It would be coded in C++ and probably have all the extras like multi server support and what not. I need to learn more assembly though if I want to be able to know how to decrypt the packets when EA changes the encryption. I'm still debating on if I want to do from scratch or not. C++ would be a better language for a server as there are less layers of complexity that slow things down. -O3 optimization is lightning fast as well.

This would all be Linux based but I'd probably aim to at least make it compile in Windows, but not guarantee as good of performance. If I do it from scratch I'm aiming for insane scalability. 10,000, maybe even 100,000 users on at once. (to actually get that much players on a shard would be quite an accomplishment mind you)

 

[Trillian08]

I have no plans to support KR since EA will be dropping it, or so I heard, so no point in wasting time trying to reverse engineer it if it's fate is not 100% known.

Not that it matters to me about KR, but I thought it was said that the old client would be dropped and KR, which is supposedly impervious to... What was it? They said something about KR being harder to... something... Oh, I think they said basically that it would thwart people from making RunUO type emulators with its shiny new code or something like that.

Well, last I heard was they were phasing out the old engine to use the KR engine from now on, in their new expansion Stygian Abyss and any more that come along afterwards. They want to update the game for the new generation and lift it out of it's *completely* non-versatile 2d graphics. If there's anything I can agree with them on about KR, it's that 3d models are far easier to manipulate and, if RunUO used a 3d client, I think there would be an influx of new items and monsters like there are in other games that use 3d engines. Having to make sprites with such tediously created animations sort of stunts the growth of RunUO's content base and limits it to scripting and other 'under the hood' type modifications.

But since Ultima Online is popular because of the gameplay, I can't really complain. I just hope Mondain's Legacy is implemented sometime in the future.

 

[Ulrich]

Not that it matters to me about KR, but I thought it was said that the old client would be dropped and KR, which is supposedly impervious to... What was it? They said something about KR being harder to... something... Oh, I think they said basically that it would thwart people from making RunUO type emulators with its shiny new code or something like that.

Well, last I heard was they were phasing out the old engine to use the KR engine from now on, in their new expansion Stygian Abyss and any more that come along afterwards. They want to update the game for the new generation and lift it out of it's *completely* non-versatile 2d graphics. If there's anything I can agree with them on about KR, it's that 3d models are far easier to manipulate and, if RunUO used a 3d client, I think there would be an influx of new items and monsters like there are in other games that use 3d engines. Having to make sprites with such tediously created animations sort of stunts the growth of RunUO's content base and limits it to scripting and other 'under the hood' type modifications.

But since Ultima Online is popular because of the gameplay, I can't really complain. I just hope Mondain's Legacy is implemented sometime in the future.

Here is some information floating about... but from the looks of it... there is another new 3D client coming out... KR is going away... and the 2D client is still going strong on the next expansion.

A new client using the UOKR clients technology. The new client is called the Stygian Abyss Client and is a rebuilt KR client that fixes many of the problems people had with the KR client. No this is not just a polished KR client it is a NEW client and is built using the same technology as the KR client the 2 are very different though. The new client currently has over 1 year of development time invested into it hence the long wait for the SA announcement.

the 2D client is still going to be supported and you will have full access to SA with it nothing is changing about 2D as we know it. You will also be able to access everything with KR and the new SA client.

 

[dspain75]

These clients have been supported in the SVN for several weeks now.

hey Zip if i do an SVN compile tonight what exactlyis the latest supported client version?
havent been around in a while but a guy who i helped script a shard for few years ago apparently is putting up a new one (old one was 1.0.0) and i was just gonna compile him a fresh package.

thanks!

 

[Ulrich]

Ryan,

this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?

 

[Macil]

Ryan,

this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?

I agree. But I think RunUO is dying.

At least I think the magic of RunUO died long ago. Sighs...

 

[Sythen]

Macil, Think Positive Man!

I think a certain percentage of RunUO may have lost interest, but I've also seen a lot of new interest growing among people just learning and trying to throw a server together.

So while RunUO may be dwindling, I don't think its going to die off because there is still a lot of people who are interested in 2D isometric diablo/ultima online style games out there.

Sites like RunUO help keep games like this alive. Also I don't believe RunUO is very well advertised on the internet. I get to talking to a lot of people and very few have even heard of RunUO.

Most people I talk to end up gaining some interest when I mention what you can do with it. I think if we had more people in the community advertise by word of mouth, RunUO would pick up again.

Its because of negative attitudes and/or complete apathy on the part of a small percentage of the current members of the community (not just in RunUO) that sites like these aren't really talked about.

Also unless experienced UO members are willing to assist newer members with coding issues (other than saying: well you need to set up a method for this so that you can achive that... so to speak...) then you get a lot of people reading the assistance posts like, "wtf are they talking about?" and/or "how do I do what they are suggesting".

I know I ask for a lot of assistance, not with coding persay, but where to find the files I would need to adjust to achieve a desired result... only to get responses suggesting I didn't search the forums well enough or perhaps I shouldn't be running a server simply because I can't find a file.

All of this my friends, is why I personally think that if the UO community (not just RunUO) is losing interest, that this may be the reason why. How do we fix it? Simple! Follow the example of Lord_Greywolf, Jeff, among others in the community who are helpful, polite, and tend to take pride in the community.

Bottom Line (yea I know its sappy *cries* ) Why take pride in a community who alienates specific members simply because the people doing the alienation feel that they aren't putting enough effort forth. Likewise why should the community take pride in members who talk smack about the generosity of the developers? Often criticizing their work and flaming them. This is all a give and take, why not just work together?

 

[Ulrich]

I agree. But I think RunUO is dying.

At least I think the magic of RunUO died long ago. Sighs...

well I hope not... but it starts at the top... if Ryan has lost interest, and since he hardly ever... if ever responds to questions... then yes it could very well be on it's death bed... would be a shame though...

 

[HellRazor]

It's open source guys. There's nothing stopping anyone from making their own updates and changes. If you're not able or willing to do that then there are plenty of third party forks to RunUO. There are at least 3 forks for Mondains Legacy and at least 1 fork for Kingdom Reborn. And tons of third party scripts.

The devs have already stated they have little interest in Mondain's Legacy, and after running a project for about 4 years for a game thats over 10 years old, who can blame them if their interests are starting to go in other directions.

Ryan,

this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?

When people ask in a rude way like this its no wonder he doesn't answer questions. The RUO devs don't owe you anything.

For what its worth, the SVN still receives occasional updates.

 

[Ulrich]

Hellrazor... that was not the first time I have asked for an update.... I have asked nicely many times... I play on Demise, I don't have time to run my own shard, and have no interest in starting over on another shard... I am grateful for everything Ryan has done, and those who have helped. A year ago there was a lot of talk about finishing ML... I just want to know if that is still the case... or if it has been scrapped....

 

[Macil]

It's open source guys. There's nothing stopping anyone from making their own updates and changes. If you're not able or willing to do that then there are plenty of third party forks to RunUO. There are at least 3 forks for Mondains Legacy and at least 1 fork for Kingdom Reborn. And tons of third party scripts.

The devs have already stated they have little interest in Mondain's Legacy, and after running a project for about 4 years for a game thats over 10 years old, who can blame them if their interests are starting to go in other directions.



When people ask in a rude way like this its no wonder he doesn't answer questions. The RUO devs don't owe you anything.

For what its worth, the SVN still receives occasional updates.

I think I understand where Ulrich is coming from. I have to disagree with you slightly though HellRazor. Ryan and his team created the beast that is RunUO, heh. It obviously has a huge fan base following them. Isn't the golden rule usually "give the people what they want?"

I don't think the community asks too much. I myself am not a coder or anything, but if you look at the script submissions section, there are plenty of people who do contribute. But even the ones who don't contribute in the form of code still download RunUO, play RunUO, spread it's name and its glory! We all do our part in our own ways.

So yeah, he doesn't by any legal means owe us squat. But out of respect to the people who follow the project so closely, and enjoy it on a daily basis. Its hard to ask us to not be eager for every new feature or release. We're just lookin' for some 'official' table scraps off Ryan's RunUO plate. I think thats all anyone here is asking for.

 

[HellRazor]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing regular updates from the team myself and I'd sure like to see RUO development continue too. But I don't think badgering Ryan (and especially badgering him in a rude kinda way) is the best way to get him to post updates, especially if the team is starting to lose interest. Nothing makes you want to quit a project that you're getting tired of more than hearing people bitch at you about it.

And honestly it could be that Ryan just doesn't have much to tell us other than the dev team is off doing other things right now. There does not seem to be too much active development taking place on RUO these days. The main person who has been updating the SVN has been Mark for some time now, and even he has been MIA lately.

So it very well may be that RUO needs to become more of a community driven project - and since it is open sourced there is really no reason that it can't be, other than there would need to be a better system for the community to submit changes for the SVN. And that would probably require a really good programmer who has the trust of the dev team and the time to weed through user-submitted code (and that's a taller order than it sounds like, most people involved with RUO who aren't on the dev team are pretty busy with their own shards).

I do agree another release of RUO is probably in order. It would be a good idea for the team to release RC3 since the current SVN has a lot of fixes for Vista and some other stuff that isn't in the downloadable version. If nothing else it would get rid of some of the Vista-related problems people post about.

Regarding Mondain's Legacy and Kingdom Reborn -

The devs have already stated on more than one occasion that they are not interested in Mondain's Legacy and higher. Like it or not (and personally I don't), they just don't seem to be interested in staying current with the new expansions. For ML they asked for the community's help and the community has responded (well, really it has been Malganis mainly but also Callandor2k and others). So I'm not sure what we would want them to tell us about ML support that they haven't said already.

And again, I'd like to see updates too, I just don't think this is the way to go about it. "Ryan, this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?" just came off kind of rude to me. Ryan probably makes a mental note to postpone posting updates for another month every time he sees one of these kinds of posts.

 

[Sythen]

I Like The Fact That The Community...

Members like, Malganis and Callandor2k, made a wonderful contribution to the community; but one of the issues is, and I only speak for myself, that there are at least 3 different versions of ML installs on the forums. This leads to a lot of confusion; I should know, I've tried them all rather unsuccessfully . Now I fully understand that no one owes anyone sqwat on this website; but I also believe in making things dumb and simple - I think it would be nice for Ryan and/or one of his other developers to assist Malganis and Callandor in making 1 repository for everyone and hosting the files.

The reason is because I'm having a lot of issues (and if I am, I know others are or will have - just a gut feeling) figuring out why after so many successful svn compiles - when I try to compile ML none of the versions came out without errors. I think that, by having the RunUO console devs helping on the ML projects, it will make ML that much more compatible during compile - no edits needed just compile and pray and add your customs as usual. Its just a thought. At least this way the only thing left to get people frazzled will be making distro edits so their customs will work again ROFL.

 

[HellRazor]

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing ML officially supported. It would be awesome if the team could inspect Malganis' code and merge it into the official distribution.

 

[nadious]

What I did, was to take one of Lokai's versions that he threw together and set it up. (It was ready to go strait out of the box... just unzip, follow the instructions, and bam... it was working.) It was very simple to use.

Then, what I did, was to take a folder, download the latest SVN of both RunUO and ML (in separate folders) and used WinMerge with each set to see if there were any up-to-date changes that had been made since I setup the shard. This works very well with the ML content and keep the shard up to date with MalGains stuff. I've learned that WinMerge is your best friend for running a shard and makes implementing new changes very easy to do.

I haven't tried any of the other setups for the ML package, but I can speak from experience that the set that I got was very easy to use. (And I find that most of the errors people have with it are that they forget to make the changes to container.cs when they are done.)

 

[Ulrich]

And again, I'd like to see updates too, I just don't think this is the way to go about it. "Ryan, this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?" just came off kind of rude to me. Ryan probably makes a mental note to postpone posting updates for another month every time he sees one of these kinds of posts.

If that got under Ryans skin... then he must be curled up in the fetal position crying every night over some of the stuff I've seen posted. throughout this thread I've asked nicely, I even wrote some yes no questions... so all he would have to do is answer yes or no to 3 questions.... and you know what most of those didn't create any kind of buzz on this forum.... at least being more direct has got more people talking.

you keep saying he has no interest in making ML... well then he shouldn't of given everyone hope by posting about it here and on the Demise forums.... or if it is truly not going to happen... at all or anytime soon... respect your community enough to let them know.

 

[jacksmith]

sorry

Not trying to keep this go but i dont understand all of you that says the devs should speed up and get ml in the svn. yes its a pain to do it the other ways but who cares there enough people here to help even the simplest people (me) understand what there doing. everyone has done great work. the devs might want to
keep ml out tell all the KR (Kingdom Reborn) stuff filters though. it would suck haveing to change code tho all that. Sorry just my to cents no im new but if you can get ml in the just wait.

 

[Sythen]

Productive Thought Versus Bitching About Nothing...

..well then he shouldn't of given everyone hope by posting about it here and on the Demise forums.... or if it is truly not going to happen... at all or anytime soon... respect your community enough to let them know. -Ulrich

Ulrich, man kinda harsh dontcha think? I mean Ryan has a life away from RunUO, however he's put more time on this project than you, me, and probably half of this community put together if not more. If he did talk to you guys here and demise about the possibility of adding ML (something I wasn't aware of)... then perhaps you guys misinterpreted what he was trying to convey.

Keep in mind that he just might've been interested in including ML but didn't know how to go about doing it (I'm speculating). The truth is, if I were Ryan reading this: whats my incentive to take on this project with all the negativity... (read the red highlights of your quote; thats hitting below the belt and is definately not accurate... Ryan has nothing but respect for this community and the project he had a huge part in creating. Why you even wrote that is beyond me.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, as much as I'd love to see all ML repositories come together into 1 centralized repository, I realize that its probably less complicated to leave things the way they are (less time consuming too).

 

[Macil]

And again, I'd like to see updates too, I just don't think this is the way to go about it. "Ryan, this is over a year old, can we get an update or something?" just came off kind of rude to me. Ryan probably makes a mental note to postpone posting updates for another month every time he sees one of these kinds of posts.

Haha, oh my god. I don't think Ryan would be that cruel.